Monday, April 6, 2009

Shafran hearts Madoff

PZ took time out of his busy schedule of mocking Christian kooks to mock a Jewish kook for a change. Apparently Rabbi Avi Shafran thinks that Bernie Madoff is more moral than Captain Sullenberger, because Sully did not publicly thank God for his successful river landing, while Bernie apologized for stealing billions of dollars (only after he was caught, of course). In the words of Sarah Palin, I kid you not.


  1. yeah, that was a stupid and obnoxious article. "Madoff stole billions of dollars, but at least he said 'sorry.'" Pulleeez. He said sorry after he got caught. And since when is not fleeing the country an admirable virtue? I think it was just lack of planning. Once he was caught he didn't go to the g'vment like a tataleh. He hid his assets and whatnot.

    But the cheery on the cake is that he mixes in the pilot. Did he do that just to get under people's skin?

  2. I don't know what he was thinking. Even other Charedi Rabbis said it was a stupid thing to write.

  3. The article is idiotic at multiple levels.

    He has a minimally valid point in regards to Sullenberger in that Sullenberger's actions were to save himself as well as the people aboard so calling that heroic is a stretch. However, Sullenberger then went through the plane to make sure no one was left.

    There's also a halachic problem with what Shafran says: his claim that halacha makes no distinction between different levels of theft is blatantly false. Small amounts of theft (below a sheva pruta) are not actionable. And his example of a dime may fall below that. Moreover, just because the form of punishment is identical in no way means that the level of wrongdoing is the same. Of course, never let actual halachah and ethics get in the way of point... and then they wonder why so many people leave and why their kiruv is so rarely successful...

  4. And isn't it also worse to steal from tzedakah (which Madoff did)?

  5. First of all, Rav Shafran has already written a mea culpa posted as Vosisneias admitting that this article wasn't... um, his finest piece of work.

    Secondly, who cares if Madoff did "teshuvah"? How does it make him a hero? The real hero would have never gotten into the situation in the first place so that he would need to do teshuvah.

  6. Curious. Are you the user "chasid kofer" on facebook?

    Anyway I'm gonna repeat my previous advice

    Apikores you need to let go of the frum world. In fact let go of all things related to Judaism.

    If it causes you pain, then why hold on to it?

    Jewish Atheist spends the majority of his life/blog bashing religion, especially Orthodox Judaism and he isn't a very happy fellow. Because he continues to hold on to a world that caused him nothing but pain. I hope you don't become that way aka make your whole life about bashing Orthodox Judaism.

    I am not a fan of Judaism either, but my advice is for your sake.

    Just let it go man. The more you gavel in this world, the more heartache it causes.

  7. No I am not "chasid kofer". See my comment on the previous post.