Tuesday, March 10, 2009

Yay America!

You've probably seen this already, but I'll mention it anyway. There's a new study out that shows that religion in America is shrinking:
Fifteen percent of respondents said they had no religion, an increase from 14.2 percent in 2001 and 8.2 percent in 1990, according to the American Religious Identification Survey.
Maybe there's hope for us yet! There is still a long way to go of course, I hope we can have an atheist in the White House again some day (Thomas Jefferson was an atheist, it seems. I guess we have regressed in this respect).


  1. I was pleasantly surprised to see that as well. It seemed apparent to me that people are less religious in practice, but I thought they still identified themselves as members of their respective religions.

  2. "but I thought they still identified themselves as members of their respective religions"

    Yeah, it seems Christianity and Judaism differ in that respect. I've never heard of someone who identifies as an atheist Christian, but I consider myself an atheist Jew.

  3. that is because orthodox judaism is much more than just a religion. it is an all-encompassing part of life & culture.

  4. I think it also has something to do with the history of persecution. I don't really have anything to do with "Jewish culture" anymore, but I know that my relatives were murdered only because they were considered Jews (whether they were religious or not), so I would feel wrong to say that I am no longer Jewish.

  5. Atheism will grow in proportion to porn and psychopathy will grow in proportion to atheism. We can all look forward to more substance abuse, fewer children and more stranger homicide. Yay.

  6. Nostradamus speaks. Did you here about the study that religious states consume the most pornography, JP?

  7. That's why they're not too religious anymore.

  8. How many school shootings did you have back in those bad old more religious days?


    We're making big progress. No God in the classroom anymore. Now we've got metal detectors at the door, police in halls and teachers carrying guns. Great.

  9. You're ridiculous JP. Do you really think that being too rational makes people violent?

  10. Do I think that not giving children a religious education which includes a belief in God, the Golden Rule, heaven and hell increases the frequency of violence? You betcha.

  11. Well then you are not in touch with reality.

  12. OK, Mr. Rational. Name one society where these three qualities exist:

    Most people do not believe in God or an afterlife.
    There is a low level of violence, comparable to the US or better.
    People are reproducing at a replacement level or better.

    Atheism = death. That's a little fact which Richard Dawkins won't tell you.

  13. There are a number of European countries which have a lower belief rate and a lower crime rate than the US (one example: 32% of people in Norway believe in god, much less than the US, and the homicide rate is one fifth as big in Norway as it is in the US - from wikipedia). As for birthrates, we should desire for them to slow, as the world is heading towards overpopulation.

    Anyway, this has no bearing on the truth of religion.

    "Atheism = death. That's a little fact which Richard Dawkins won't tell you."

    I can make up "facts" too: "religion = explosive diarrhea".

  14. First of all, only 17% of Norwegians are atheists.


    Second of all, native born Norwegian have a total fertility rate of 1.8.


    2.1 is considered to replacement level.


    Anyway, thanks for confirming my assertion. Atheism = death.

  15. I got my number from a different page, but either way they have more atheists than the US.

    So let me get this straight: You think is a good thing that were headed toward overpopulation?

    "Anyway, thanks for confirming my assertion. Atheism = death."

    Boy, you're really living in a fantasy world aren't you?

  16. Obviously, population decline will ultimately lead to extinction. We're just seeing the beginnings of that in secularized societies such as Norway.

    Combine that with addiction disorders common in atheistic societies (for example alcoholism in Russia http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1647475.ece), increases in suicide rates (for example Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan), genocides in totalitarian atheistic countries (for example North Korea's artificial famine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine), need I say more.

    Atheism = death.

  17. "Obviously, population decline will ultimately lead to extinction."

    Right now we are in jeopardy of overpopulation. We need to decrease birthrates, or else we will run out of resources, and then we will really be in trouble. You are delusional if you think that we are at risk of not having enough children. It's exactly the opposite.

    The myth that rational societies commit genocide is old and worn out. North Korea is as irrational as any religious society. We need to get rid of ALL dogmas, whether religious or not.

    "Atheism = death"

    Repeating it again and again doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

  18. "Right now we are in jeopardy of overpopulation."

    If we adopt atheism we'll be in danger of extinction.

    "We need to get rid of ALL dogmas, whether religious or not."

    We should just believe the truth, which means agreeing with whatever you believe. Sure.

    "Repeating it again and again doesn't make it any less ridiculous."

    And celebrating increased atheism is about as rational as celebrating increased morbid obesity.

  19. You really seem to be out of touch with reality JP, even for a faithhead.

    At least your entertaining.

  20. Well, I have just a couple of problems with atheism.

    First of all, it's not true, as demonstrated by the Watchmaker Analogy and the Kuzari Principle.

    Second of all, it will cause the extinction of the mankind, as demonstrated the demographics of native Europeans since about 1900. More secularism = few people.

  21. Do you seriously believe that the watchmaker argument (i.e the argument from design) and Kuzari's principle (i.e. the argument from public revelation) really prove the existence of god? If so, I can't imagine how you can call yourself "philosopher".

    I still don't get your fetish about overpopulation.

  22. Actually Thomas Jefferson was more deist, and still enjoyed some fling of religion.

    He denied the divinity of Christ, but still believed in him. And his most famous line is that Paul was the first corrupter of Christianity. Its kinda obvious these very islamic ideas on christianity come from Jefferson's Quran.

    In the Virginia statute, he wrote, "Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry." He went on to say that denying a person the ability to hold an office of trust or declaring him unworthy of public confidence based on his religious beliefs was a violation of natural rights.The document demanded "that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

    It is believed that Jefferson was inspired by the teaching of the Quran, prohibiting compulsion in religion and forcing religious doctrines. Also the foundation for "all men are created Equal" and "men are born free" are some of the indications for the Quran as a source for guidance "no compulsion in religion" Quran 2:256.


  23. I don't think a deist could get elected as president today either.

  24. JP, School shootings are not at all a new thing. Charles Whitman's famous clocktower rampage was in 1966. The Cologne school massacre occurred in 1964. The Bath School disaster was in 1927 and had 45 deaths.

    I'm also curious if you agree that if the present population growth rate continues we will have an overpopulation problem.